ESTÚPIDO SAVANNAH - Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:44:43 PM

Comments

I'm waiting for the inevitable above the fold story on how the Waxman-Markey bill won't devastate Savannah's industry. That bill will take care of rampant consumerism in a jiffy.
You are incorrect about city registered voters being able to sign the petition. According to the state constitution, and confirmed by experts in state government, all registered voters residing in the county are to be considered and able to participate in citizens initiatives. Get your facts straight please, since you claim to love the facts so much.

We project having enough signatures to cause a referendum by April 2010, maybe earlier. Oh by the way, all registered voters will decide the issue even though it will only effect unincorporated CC. I find that odd myself, but hey, that's how the law was written so we are following it. if you don't like it, change it as we are doing to the county charter. Some people do things, others don't.
John are you suggesting that City of Savannah voters could impose their will on the unincorporated areas of the county even though the City taxpayers will not be paying for the program in question? That is indeed a different interpretation of the law than I understand currently. If that is the case then you and your petition just went from laughable to frighting. Are you really willing to impose higher taxes without support from a majority of the people asked to pay those taxes? That is anti-democratic in the extreme. I will do my due diligence but if what you say is true, you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting this.
Yeah the way I read the law you can't do it. It's a moot point anyway cause you will never get enough signatures but still here are three good reasons why you can't do it.

O.C.G.A. § 36-70-24 Special Service District rules
(3)(A) The strategy shall ensure that the cost of any service which a county provides primarily for the benefit of the unincorporated area of the county shall be borne by the unincorporated area residents, individuals, and property owners who receive the service. Further, when the county and one or more municipalities jointly fund a county-wide service, the county share of such funding shall be borne by the unincorporated residents, individuals, and property owners that receive the service.

Ga. Const. Art. VII, § I, Para. III

taxes must be uniform

(a) All taxes shall be levied and collected under general laws and for public purposes only. Except as otherwise provided in subparagraphs (b), (c), (d), and (e), all taxation shall be uniform upon the same class of subjects within the territorial limits of the authority levying the tax.

Ga. Const. Art. IX, § II, Para. I

No amendment hereunder shall be valid if inconsistent with any provision of this Constitution or if provision has been made therefor by general law.



People lie about recycling. Starbucks has/had (I don't fellowship there anymore) a recycling petition and I asked the Starbucks gurl why they want you to sign the recycling petition when they (starbucks) don't recycle themselves and the coffee gurl said that they DO recycle. A quick trip around back proved that the Starbucks gurl was somehow confused cuz they don't have recycling containers anywhere for their brand name garbage. The crazy thing is that Starbucks wants you to sign a petition for curbside recycling yet it is something they won't do on their own. I asked the district manager Dan Jones if Starbucks would allow a curbside gay marriage petition to appear in the store and he would not agree to that request yet defended their promotion of the curbside recycling petition. Many of the recycling providers and programs you can name today will not exist in the future. Look at California and also Georgia. How long do you think the tax payers will put up with layoffs of teachers and the closure of state parks and libraries and on and on but continue funding for garbage recycling? My opinion is that this recession will do more for the environment than anything the recycling crowd has accomplished in the last 20 years. In other words, I believe that most of the efforts by the recycling crowd have been a waste of time, energy and resources.

You have made a brilliant argument for city/county consolidation. I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.
Greetings Estupido,
While I appreciate the vigilance, and apologize for offending your journalistic sensibilities, I do have to say that your rage over the mis-calculation of energy savings from recycling an aluminum can seems a little reactionary.

First of all, your calculation is for a computer with an LCD screen, which not everyone has, and which uses less electricity than their tube-lit predecessors. Energy-use among appliances is a big variable. The 3-hour/can number came from Randy Hartmann, Director of the DCA's Office of Environmental Management, and I don't know what type of computer or monitor they used to calculate that number. Regardless, your independent research only seems to validate the importance of recycling, considering your number more than triples the impact stated in my article.

As for the 45% of Georgians who are committed to recycling, while less than 45% of Georgia has curbside, 74% of GA counties offer some form of recycling, so from those numbers, it wouldn't seem all that outlandish that slightly less than half of the state could at some point during the year recycle. The question wasn't HOW committed they were to recycling, ie - do they recycle every week, it was only whether they have demonstrated some commitment to it, meaning that, yes, it is a little soft so far as numbers go, but it still illustrates the point it feebly supports.

Regardless of how many Georgians recycle every week, or ever, that number remains secondary to the entire point of the article, which was that if we were better recyclers, it would positively impact our state economy, as well the environment.
With due respect Mr. Rodgers, the poll cited for the 45% number also defines committed recyclers as those who claim "they recycle always or often". Only 41% claimed they lived in communities that offer curbside. Again soft language weakens a factual statement. "...some form of recycling"? Savannah offered "some form of recycling" long before the current program started. That statement is meaningless because any one who reuses a milk jug can claim they have recycled.

Desktop with 17’ CRT monitor run for 5 hours = 1 KWh

So even with the older monitor the computer would run for at least 8 hours with the energy savings from one aluminum can.

It is a disservice to readers and to positive environmental aims to simply quote recycling proponents without testing their claims.

The problems I found with your article are by no means isolated, I find exactly the same problems in almost all recycling articles.

As I said in my original post, I did like the economic slant. But can we believe the information presented supporting the economic impact claims since the other claims are incorrect or spurious?


Also, on a side note about the economics of recycling from a tax payer stand point, the value of recyclables has plummeted in the last year or so, however, if I understand correctly, the City had signed their contract with Pratt at a locked in value per ton that would not fluctuate with the market, so if we are losing money on the deal, we're not losing as much as Atlanta or Berkeley. And if we are having to actually spend tax payer $$ on curbside, if the value of recycling a single aluminum can is as important as your independent research has concluded, then we are well served by the investment.
You are drawing conclusions from facts not in evidence.

The Savannah program, despite the sweet deal they got with Pratt, is never expected to pay for itself.

It was not designed that way and is funded through a combination of state grants, general fund tax dollars and direct fees to each household.
Point taken. However, I would feel much more inclined to question their facts if the numbers they gave had over-valued recycling...as is, their numbers undervalue the cause they are supposedly supporting. If the state had come out with numbers about a can running a computer for a 2 days and it turned out to be 8-10 hours, then I would have to wonder, but as is, the numbers they have, if anything, seem simply outdated, or at worst an overly conservative estimate.

I readily acknowledge that the survey numbers are soft, and people would most likely be inclined to believe that they recycle "often", even if they don't, particularly if they were being surveyed in person, and even more so if they were being surveyed in person at an event like Earth Day. However, even if 45% is an inflated number, it's not being inflated to support the state's claims on recycling. If anything, the reality of the situation is even more dire than they admit. So, whether you think it's important as a economic force, or as an environmental need, than the fact remains that Georgians could/should step up their efforts.
I didn't assume that the whole recycling program was being covered by Pratt, but at a certain point, we as a city need to invest some tax dollars in making ourselves more environmentally responsible.

The entirety of the state single-stream grant was spent on the pretty yellow-topped bins that now adorn our streets and alleys, as well as several of the fleet of recycling trucks. There was an extra few hundred thousand from the city spent on the rest of the fleet. If I understand correctly, and I don't claim to be an expert, because I really only started looking into this about 2 weeks ago, but most of the actual tax dollars being put into this are to cover gas for the trucks and the salaries of the people who drive them. If I'm wrong here, I'm sure you'll let me know. Some of that is underwritten by Pratt, who then pays for the tonnage. Now, if you're concerned with what the city is paying out of pocket, then shouldn't we all be advocating for the most participation possible from Savannahians, since that would then increase the amount of money Pratt pays to the city for our recyclables?
You've created a causality loop. If recycling were not laid at the feet of taxpayers then taxpayers would not have to recycle more to avoid paying the higher taxes and fees.

You as a journalist have a responsibility to publish only factual information. It should not matter if it is an underestimate or an overestimate it should be factual. That means is someone offers statistics you should check those statistics to make sure they are accurate and true.

As I said the program is funded through a combination of sources:

"The City’s initial capital cost for the collection program, estimated at
$3,333,000, will be funded by a state grant ($955,000) and the Vehicle
Replacement and Sanitation Funds ($2,378,000). The ongoing annual
operating cost, estimated at $1,250,375, will be recommended to be funded in
2009 by a $1 per month residential refuse fee increase ($576,000), Pratt
tonnage fee payments ($346,451), and a General Fund subsidy ($327,924)."

Let's get a few facts on the table. Government does not create any wealth. Government has and will continue to operate itself using only tax payer funding, there's no other funding source. So, if it's our money, and we want a very small portion of it spent on this or that, we have the implicit right to have simple services we desire and let's not forget - fund.

Now as to cost, libraries are not revenue neutral. Health department services are not either, police and fire same thing. Now our government spends our money on lots of stuff: luxury yacht basin/slips at Hutchinson Island, $80,000 DC lobbyist, $200 million new sports arena, $54 million elevating Presidents Street around Savannah River Landing, etc.

None of these expenses are revenue neutral are they? And who benefits? Developers.

So please don't begrudge those who want a simple service as 2x a month curbside recycling program in the unincorporated area. It's reasonable, we are doing constitutionally using our rights, so put it in perspective and quit whining.
John I begrudge nothing.

What you are suggesting is perfectly fine, IF the people affected, those who would receive and pay for the services, decide they want it and are willing to pay for it.

What you and your friends are suggesting is the same as having voters in the State of South Carolina decide that people in Georgia use too much water.

The voters in South Carolina could vote and decide that a higher water fee should be imposed only on Georgia homeowners. That is not how the system works for a very good reason.

It is taxation without representation.


UH. oKAY. eSTUPEDO. i REALLY LIKE YOU BLOG. sPECIALLY dEWBERRY. cLASS. U REALLY COOL, MAN. WITH SMART GUYS LIKE ESTUPEDO, WE'D PROBABLY HAVE A GOVERNMENT, PRESS, AND STUFF LIKE WE DO. tHANKS. fREESTYLE
Use this one: I just did a little math after reading the connect article. They say that they are collecting 500 tons a month and also that 10% of the tonnage collected is not recyclable material. 450 tons a month * $10/ton payment from Pratt = $4500/month or $54,000/year. Using the numbers you quoted that says the city expects annual payments from Pratt of $346,451 shows that the city had rose colored glasses on when estimating this. The city's subsidy from the general fund said to be $327,924 will now become $620,375. Either the subsidy will come through the taxes collected that make up the subsidy or the residential refuse fee (tax) will have to be doubled. The alternative would be for the city to somehow get folks to recycle almost 6.5 times more than the residents currently recycle. The magic number for the city's estimate to work is the collection and payment for 2887 tons of recyclable garbage per month. We are at 450 tons today according to the connect article. If the tonnage number does not increase the city will either have to cut services or raise taxes because their estimates on the tonnage collections are off. All of this supposing they need to balance this garbage business budget.

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ESTÚPIDO SAVANNAH

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ESTÚPIDO SAVANNAH
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